Subject: [ETI Informal 1AD.01.12.08] Re: Is the Stand-Up Exodus 12 Pesach Still In Effect?
From: "James@End Time Issues" <[email-masked]>
To: "Lists@ End Time Issues" <[email-masked]>
Date: Wed, 26 Dec 2001 09:41:47 +0200

Greetings

The mail below was received today and raises some challenging points.

Following is my reply and the original mail.

Warm regards and blessings

James Robertson

Thank you Norman

Yahweh confirms that the last supper was NOT the Passover meal and that John is correct on this.

You confirm a number of other points that Yahweh has been speaking to me about for some time, specifically that the Greek manuscripts ARE corrupt and ALSO that there are elements of "folk tales" in certain accounts and also adjustments by early scribes to make the accounts fit what was more acceptable!

At one stage you seem to attach specific importance to the seder, are you referring to the traditional seder or simply to what is set out in Torah?  It seems to me that it is only that which is EXPRESSLY stated in Torah that we should observe as being mandated by Yahweh.

Interesting point that the Passover meal should ALWAYS be eaten standing up! (Yahweh confirms this!)

Shalom aleichem

James

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: norman willis 
  To: norman willis 
  Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2001 11:55 PM
  Subject: Is the Stand-Up Exodus 12 Pesach Still In Effect?

  Is the Stand-Up Exodus 12 Passover Still in Effect?
  By Norman Willis, [email-masked]

  "And you shall guard this word as a Law for you and your sons, forever."
  Shemoth (Exodus) 12:24.

  Yahshua’s Sinless Example:

  We know that Yahshua kept the Torah perfectly, for Yahshua was sinless. If sin is the transgression of the Law, then our Perfect Example did not transgress the Law in any way.

  But the question comes up, "How did Yahshua observe the Passover?" If we are to keep the Passover, just as Yahshua kept the Passover, then how did Yahshua keep it?

  Conflict in the Gilyon (the Gospels):

  [14] "But you, stay in what you have learned and trusted, having known from whom you have learned, [15] and that from a babe you have known the St-Apart Scriptures, which are able to make you wise through deliverance through belief in Yahoshua Messiah.
  [16] "All Scripture is breathed by Elohim and is profitable for teaching, for reproof, for setting straight, for instruction in righteousness, [17] that the man of Elohim might be fitted, equipped for every good work." 2 Timothy 3:16-17.

  It is often said that Shaul (Paul) was referring to his own writings as the Scripture that is breathed (inspired) by Elohim, but clearly this is not the case. Shaul was telling Timothy that he had known the Scriptures from a babe. How could Timothy have known Shaul’s epistle to him from a babe? It makes no sense.

  It makes more sense to say that Shaul was referring to either the Torah (the first five books of Moses), or the Tanach, (the "Old Testament") as the Scripture that is breathed of Elohim. 

  Jewish lore holds it that YHWH dictated the Torah (The Pentateuch, or the First Five Books of Moses) to Moshe (Moses) letter by letter, and this is likely correct. For more, information, see the description of the book, "Cracking the B-ble Code" http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/068815994X/qid%3D992200873/sr%3D1-1/ref%3Dsc%5Fb%5F1/107-0413359-8330924). 

  The Torah codes described herein do not exist in any other writings on earth; but only exist in the Torah, and in some portions of the prophets.

  But weren’t the Gospels inspired, also?

  People get emotionally attached to the idea that the Gilyon (the "Good News," or the "Gospels") were breathed of Elohim. Perhaps the Hebraic originals might have been, but certainly the Greek translations are not, any more than a translation in to Swahili might be considered inspired.

  There is overwhelming evidence to suggest that the Gilyon were originally written in Hebrew, and not in Greek [see http://www.regathering.com/teachings.html, "Were the Gilyon (New Testament Scriptures) written in Greek?] Either the Gilyon are mere "witnesses" of people who were witness to Yahshua’s ministry, or else the original Hebrew versions were inspired, but underwent corruption at the point they were translated from Hebrew in to Greek. 

  Nothing upsets people more than to suggest that the Gilyon (the Good News) conflict within them selves, but if there is conflict, there is conflict. Facts are facts. But then it is our job to study the Scripture, to try to sleuth out YHWH’s intention for us.

  Conflict in the Gilyon:

  The problem with the Gilyon involves an apparent conflict between the accounts of the Pesach (the Passover). All three of the synoptic accounts (Matthew, Mark, and Luke) read one way, and then the account given by Yochanan (John) reads another. This gives us a small crisis.

  You could claim that three witnesses ought to over-rule one, and that the accounting in Matthew, Mark, and Luke should "win out." But if the synoptic gospels really were written "synoptically" (the Book of Mark being used as a pattern, and then Matthew and Luke merely adding things to it), then really the synoptic books count as only one witness. This would hypothetically make the witness in Yochanan (John) of equal weight with the synoptic accounts.

  What is the Problem in the Synoptic Accounts?

  [17] "And on the first day of Unleavened Bread, the talmidim (disciples) came to Yahshua, saying to Him, "Where do you wish us to prepare for you to eat the Passover?" Matthew 26:17

  [12] "And on the first day of Unleavened Bread, when they were slaughtering the Passover lamb, His talmidim said to Him, "Where do you wish us to go and prepare, for You to eat the Passover?" Mark 14:12

  [7] And the Day of Unleavened Bread came when the Passover had to be slaughtered. [8] And He sent Kefa (Peter) and Yochanan (John), saying, "Go and prepare the Passover for us to eat." Luke 22:7-8.

  The problem is that the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread comes after the Pass Over. Yahshua was already in the ground on the first day of Unleavened Bread; therefore these verses can not be correct. (Perhaps they were altered when the documents were put over in to the Greek?)

  The Passage in Yochanan (John):The passage in Yochanan reads differently:

  [1] And before the Festival of the Passover, Yahshua knowing that His hour had come that He should move out of the world unto the Father, having loved His own who were in the world, He loved them to the end.
  [2] And the supper taking place, the devil having already put it into the heart of Yahudah (Judas) from Qerioth, son of Shimon, to deliver Him up….
  Yochanan (John) 13:1-2

  According to this passage, the Last Supper was not the Passover supper at all, but perhaps the day before the Passover (the start of Aviv 13). 

  This account could not have taken place on the Passover (or on the First Day of Unleavened Bread), for as we read,

  [27] And after the piece of bread, Satan entered in to him (Judas). Yahshua, therefore, said to him, "What you do, do quickly."
  [28] But no one at the table knew why He said this to him.
  [29] For some were supposing, because Yahudah (Judas) had the bag, that Yahshua was saying to him, "Buy what we need for the festival," or that He should give somewhat to the poor.
  Yochanan (John) 13:27-29

  If some were supposing that Yahudah (Judas) were going to go buy something for the festival, the festival could not yet have begun, for in Israel, all commerce stops during the High Days. Therefore this took place before the High Day.

  Further, we read in the account in Yochanan (John) that after the Last Supper, (when Pilate sat in earthly judgment of Yahshua) it was still before the Passover:

  "It was the Preparation Day of the Passover, and about the sixth hour. And he [Pilate] said to the Yahudim, "Behold your Sovereign!" Yochanan (John 19:14)

  "So the Last Supper was not the Passover. But why is this Important?"In Shemoth (Exodus) we are told how YHWH wants the Passover to be held:

  [2] "Speak to all the congregation of the children of Israel, saying, ‘On the tenth day of this month each one of you is to take for himself a lamb, according to the house of his father, a lamb for a household.
  [5] "Let the lamb be a perfect one. Take it from the sheep or from the goats."
  [6] "And you shall keep it until the fourteenth day of the same month (until the start of the fourteenth day). Then all the assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it between the evenings.
  [11] "And this is how you eat it: your loins girded, your sandals on your feet, and your staff in your hand. And you shall eat it in haste: It is the Passover of YHWH"
  [24] "And you shall guard this word as a law for you and your sons forever."
  Shemoth (Exodus) 12:2,5,6,11, and 24.

  It is widely presumed that the Last Supper was held in the manner of the traditional Orthodox Passover Seder, with the four cups, and all that.

  If the Last Supper was the Passover Supper, then this is an indication that Yahshua came to change the manner of observance of the Passover from how YHWH said it was to be performed forever. It would make Yahshua a replacement theologist. 

  But if the Last Supper was held before the Passover, then Yahshua did not replace the Father’s commandment as to how to keep the Passover with a Passover Seder service.

  Yahshua could not have been a Replacement Theologist:

  [17] "Do not think that I came to destroy the Torah or the Prophets. I did not come to destroy, but to complete.
  [18] "For truly, I say to you, till the heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall by no means pass from the Torah till all be done.
  Mattithyahu 5:17-18

  Yahshua Himself tells us that He did not come to change what His Father handed down to the Israelites at the time of Moshe (Moses). He only came so as to show them how to keep the Torah better.

  Is there any other evidence for a Stand-Up Pesach (Passover)?We know that Yahshua was put to death on the Passover, for He was the spotless Passover Lamb. But is there any other evidence that the Passover was held standing up?

  [49] And all those who knew Him, and the women who followed Him from Galil, stood at a distance, watching this.

  This is in fulfillment of the prophesy of Yahshua’s torture at Tehillim (Psalm) 38:11:

  [11] My loved ones and my friends stand back from my plague, and my neighbors stand far away.

  Are there any Brit Chadasha (NT) references?

  We know that the Festivals of YHWH are still in effect, and we read that the apostles kept the Festivals of YHWH:

  [Feast of Unleavened Bread kept at Acts 12:3, Acts 20:6, mentioned at Matthew 26:29, 1 Corinthians 5:8]
  [Feast of Weeks kept at Acts 20:16, mentioned at 1 Corinthians 16:8]
  [Feast of Trumpets mentioned at 1 Corinthians 15:52, Matthew 24:31, 1 Thessalonians 4:16, Revelations 11:15, Jeremiah 31]
  [Day of Atonement observed by Shaul (called "The Fast") at Acts 27:9]
  [Feast of Tabernacles mentioned at Revelations 21:3, Zecharyah 14 (all), and in many other places] 

  We also know from Shaul’s writings that the Feasts of YHWH are shadows of things that are still to come:

  [16] "Let no one therefore judge you in eating or in drinking, or in respect of a festival or a new moon or Sabbaths [17] (which are a shadow of what is to come), but the Body of Messiah."   Colossians 2:16-17.

  Conclusion:

  If the Last Supper was not the Passover supper, then Yahshua did not change the Passover, and the Exodus 12 Passover service is still in effect, as it is a shadow of things that are still to come, such as the Second Exodus. 

  When the Second Exodus comes, we will surely want to have our loins girded, our staff in hand, and out sandals on our feet, having kept YHWH’s Words the Way that He says to keep them.

  Blessed be the Name of YHWH,

  Norman B. Willis
  General Overseer
  The Israelite sect of the Nazarenes
  Re-establishing the original faith of the apostles

  www.regathering.com

  When YHWH our Elohim is with you,
  Do all that is in your heart (provided it is in keeping with the Torah!)